tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5822092.post7538905818000418470..comments2023-10-21T04:29:35.843-07:00Comments on In The End, Nothing Happened: The Game of TalkingUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5822092.post-13822171296679826502009-03-25T15:49:00.000-07:002009-03-25T15:49:00.000-07:00You probably just described the mechanism which ma...You probably just described the mechanism which makes silent players lose! They get eventually called and can't give proper retort.Simohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08899306922236159202noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5822092.post-63118823621755960592009-03-23T08:42:00.000-07:002009-03-23T08:42:00.000-07:00In a conversation like that, a "shut up" goes like...In a conversation like that, a "shut up" goes like this:<BR/>Person 1: "I went jogging last night and my legs hurt like hell"<BR/>Shut-up: "You should get better shoes"<BR/><BR/>"calling a game" would be like this:<BR/>Simo: .... [says nothing]<BR/>X: Well, what did <I>you</I> do last night?<BR/>Simo: "Nothing." [lose/win, depending on discourse]<BR/>Simo: ... [says nothing; mostly a losing move]<BR/>Simo: "I really showed that bitch some good time." [Win]<BR/><BR/>YMMVTiedemieshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08307419899926184187noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5822092.post-59039857736296624792009-03-20T12:41:00.000-07:002009-03-20T12:41:00.000-07:00Point 1) is valid, talk must be above some thresho...Point 1) is valid, talk must be above some threshold of relevance to qualify.<BR/><BR/>About your other points, it seems that you are talking about the "game of argumentation", which is an advanced form of Game of Talking. <BR/><BR/>Argumentation to discover the truth and who is right is generally recognized to be competitive sport.<BR/><BR/>This writing is about the shit you get if you don't talk much at all, and why. The "novel" thing is that everyday conversation is a competitive game where you can lose even if it's not generally recognized so.<BR/><BR/>Game of talking is more widely played among general population. Often, people only claim subjective things ("Oh, my legs hurt after from yesterday's floorball!" "I bought something yesterday!") or don't claim anything. In the rare moments when the game of talking borders on argumentation, relevancy is still less important. Also, the shut-ups are much more crude and for that reason a bit frowned upon. Most people haven't practised argumentation where "asiat kiistelee eivät ihmiset". When they do argument, they treat it as an act of politics where the winning truth and political interests are tightly coupled.Simohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08899306922236159202noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5822092.post-23735386363922299662009-03-20T03:44:00.000-07:002009-03-20T03:44:00.000-07:00I understand this point of view to social situatio...I understand this point of view to social situations, however, there are some fundamental flaws in applying it "as is". <BR/><BR/>1) You do not win if you talk more than anyone else, unless this is somehow corrected for relevance. Talking is only taken into consideration if some nondisclosed rules of discourse are obeyed. This part can be partly "cracked" by analyzing the particular discourse, but it happens too fast in a particular setting and anyway, next time the rules have probably changed.<BR/><BR/>2) You do not lose if you talk less. You lose if someone "shuts you up" in accordance to the rules, i.e., provides a "legal" shut-up-argument. If you remain silent through the game, you get a decent outcome unless someone "calls" your game. In case someone calls your game, you can still get a decent outcome by giving a proper retort, again, according to rules of discourse.<BR/><BR/>3) Insults are a very restricted weapon and almost invariably never used against a silent player. <BR/><BR/>4) Punishment is issued only when someone loses their temper or otherwise breaks the rules of discourse.<BR/><BR/>The abstraction is also quite restricted. Extraverted people outsource their thinking process, i.e., they think outloud and in unfinished thoughts that do not completely pass through the conscious mind, or are filtered only very very lightly (i.e. no profanities, no awkward personal revelations etc.) For us it is not a game involving some thoughts, it is <I>an integral part of the thought process</I>.<BR/><BR/>This is what is almost impossible for introverted people to understand and vice versa. To me, on the level of experience, the idea that thoughts could be somehow "finished" inside one's mind is profoundly alien and I can understand the concept only very vaguely. <BR/><BR/>Similarly, I think, for the introverted person, the idea that thoughts do not "occur" inside one's mind but rather, between people, is equally incomprehensible.Tiedemieshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08307419899926184187noreply@blogger.com